Physics engines

Anything and everything that's related to OGRE or the wider graphics field that doesn't fit into the other forums.

Re: Physics engines

Postby alexjc » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:50 pm

Hi jacmoe,

(Only just found this thread, so forgive my late reply.)

I'm glad you feel so passionate about this issue, but I'm not sure I understand your perspective entirely. To clarify:
  • We made no changes to Ogre itself, except some minor tweaks to the configuration dialog box, which are available in SVN.
  • Tuan is right about driving the bones directly, that's the approach we used. It only requires the standard Ogre DLL, according to the LGPL.
  • There are no commercial licenses, just licences for R&D. We're not building a reusable library for other games, we're building a Sandbox.
  • The code is intended for educational reasons, so if you learned something feel free to re-implement it into Ogre -- that's the point!

Do you have an equally strong opinion about proprietary plugins or tools for Ogre? Without charging, I can guarantee you we would not have been able to do what we do full time (the free conferences, maintaining the site, and the code). Keep in mind Cumans, Mononen, Terdiman and Ratcliff have full time jobs doing other stuff.


Anyway, even if we did have a nice reusable library for animation, it's still nowhere near ready yet. In fact the blend tree is the part that needs more work. If there was enough interest, I was planning to release an open SDK with a bulk of the code available (early next year), but if you speak on behalf of the community, I'm no longer sure I'm using the right engine anymore.

Best,
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Re: Physics engines

Postby jacmoe » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:57 pm

Don't worry, Alex!
Keep up the good work.
We definitely need an AI game developer think tank! :)

And, of course: we all need to make a living.
And it is not gratis to lead aigamedev, I know.

I was just wondering if there was any modifications made to Ogre because you briefly mentioned that you were going to change something, but apparently you decided to wrangle the beast in your own code, which is better.
That's actually quite impressive what you did back then.

Haven't checked it lately, though.

I will. :wink:
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Re: Physics engines

Postby jacmoe » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:06 pm

alexjc wrote:if you speak on behalf of the community, I'm no longer sure I'm using the right engine anymore.

No, I don't! :o
I could learn a thing or two about the art of diplomacy, that's for sure.

I embrace every single project using Ogre.
Commercial projects are very welcome.
We need that too! :)

Luckily, more and more commercial projects are using Ogre.
That's a good thing.
You might even say it's necessary if Ogre 3D wants to succeed in the 'industry'.
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Re: Physics engines

Postby jacmoe » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:24 pm

There's two topics haunting me on this forum:
This one, and a topic where I managed to write that OPCODE was messy code! :)
Pierre Terdiman commented on that, of course. :wink:
That was years ago, but I clearly remember it.
Looking at OPCODE now, of course I realise that it's actually remarkably clean code! :oops:
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Re: Physics engines

Postby cyrfer » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:21 pm

alexjc wrote:[*]Tuan is right about driving the bones directly, that's the approach we used. It only requires the standard Ogre DLL, according to the LGPL.


Would you mind sharing what Ogre classes are used to drive the bones? I'm just starting to look into this myself. Thanks.
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Re: Physics engines

Postby jacmoe » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:45 pm

I've been acting like a Bull in a China Shop, and for that I am truly sorry. :(

Let me put one thing straight:


I have the deepest respect for Alex J. Champandard - who's not only a veteran A.I. master programmer, but also the man behind AiGameDev.com.

Which is *the* place to go if you want be a part of a A.I. game developer community where you get to meet the important people in the industry.

Ask a question about A.I., and don't be surprised if you get answers from Millington or Buckland, or another luminary. :)

Highly recommended.
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Re: Physics engines

Postby nedelman » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:22 am

alexjc wrote:Do you have an equally strong opinion about proprietary plugins or tools for Ogre?

Despite his retractions in his previous posts, yes, this really is how he feels. I've encountered negative comments from him regarding my own tools (the OgreMax exporters), with him recommending other very limited, outdated, or even abandoned tools for no reason other than the fact they're open source.

alexjc wrote:Without charging, I can guarantee you we would not have been able to do what we do full time

The same applies to me as well. I have spent many thousands of hours developing and supporting the OgreMax software. There is no way I could continue to do this without charging for it.

No matter how much good you do there will always be people who feel the need to complain about it (or in this case, even threaten to sue you). Just ignore them.

On a side note, I've landed on the aigamedev site a couple of times over the last year and was always intrigued. I finally took the plunge and became a premium member. There's a lot of really good information on the site. Definitely keep up the great work!
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Re: Physics engines

Postby jacmoe » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:37 am

You seem to be very upset that I recommend other exporters, and that I disagree with you shutting down the Ogremax forum.
OgreMax is excellent, and officially recommended by the Ogre team.
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Re: Physics engines

Postby jacmoe » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:45 am

nedelman wrote:Despite his retractions in his previous posts, yes, this really is how he feels.

Feeling happy now? :)
Grabbing the opportunity, are we?
I actually owe you that one.
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Re: Physics engines

Postby tuan kuranes » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:28 pm

Ogre has a Recommanded tools page where is listed together only the most mature and popular projects regardless of any opensourceness (OgreMax is on the top of the list). That pretty much sum up Ogre community position on the topic.

As often pointed on the forum by many members and contributors, and even the whole opensource community ( http://www.opensources.com/2010/08/10/i ... ney-train/ ), unless being a student or funded, the right formula between "real life" and "opensource free work" is very hard to find. I doubt anyone aware of that would despise anyone who doesn't opensource its work.

Imho, Ogre users/members are well *too* aware of opensource monetization problematics and implications. Opensource is a noble goal, but it must not be at the expense of your life/heatlh/etc. ( http://www.stevestreeting.com/2010/04/2 ... -for-ogre/ )

I was planning to release an open SDK with a bulk of the code available (early next year)

That would be awesome and very generous of you !
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Re: Physics engines

Postby cyrfer » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:02 pm

cyrfer wrote:
alexjc wrote:[*]Tuan is right about driving the bones directly, that's the approach we used. It only requires the standard Ogre DLL, according to the LGPL.


Would you mind sharing what Ogre classes are used to drive the bones? I'm just starting to look into this myself. Thanks.


@Tuan: Do you know where I should start if I want to drive the bones myself?

I know some people felt the need to make public apologies, but this thread is about using Ogre for cool stuff. Any tips are much appreciated. Happy coding all.
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Re: Physics engines

Postby tuan kuranes » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:45 pm

@cyrfer: Keywords are: manualcontrol blendmask Or AnimationTrack::Listener

-> Manual Control: if you drive all or part of the bones by yourself à la blendtree /motion graph (animation/physic/aI)
check viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52981
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/ManuallyControllingBones

-> Listener: Still using Ogre animation engine, but want fine control to influence rather than replace :
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53688&p=366242&hilit=bone+listener#p366242

Using those keywords on forum should leads you to load of links/info/code/tutorial all must read if you want to save yourself some time aftewards, by getting first choice design the most right possible.

( just in case, be sure to check TecnoFreak: Blend Tree Animation System (opensourced editor) )
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