Proposal: New Ogre Wiki

[jacmoe]

Well, people.

It turns out that I was wrong, and those of you who wanted to stick with MediaWiki are right.

I underestimated the resources required to run Tiki, and it doesn't look too good, unfortunately.
Our server is not happy - we can cope, but it's never going to be as lean as MediaWiki.

So, it looks like you're going to keep working in good old MediaWiki.

[syd]

seriously?

why is the official ogre wiki points now to tiki then ?

[jacmoe]

Because we're working our asses off to make it work..
I guess we can back-port some of it..
But it really doesn't look good.

[syd]

what's the performance penalty compared to mediawiki? x2 x3?
doesn't look slow at all

[jacmoe]

No, we managed to - or should I say: Sinbad did most of the work - bring it down to under 3x the load, with an average of 1.5x.
If we keep our fingers crossed, it will stay that way.
Still not optimal.
Tiki is really a hungry beast.
The question if of course: is it worth it?

I am not really in a position to answer that question.

[syd]

The question if of course: is it worth it?

I would answer: not as a long term solution.

Powered by Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware
[ Execution time: 1.29 secs ] [ Memory usage: 15.23MB ] [ 112 database queries used in 0.1 secs ] [ Server load: 1.94 ]

One second to make a page is too slow yes........
on the other hand you've done a lot of work, and the end result must not be sacrificed.

so the long term solution look like: keep the new wiki (contents), but remove tiki.
that's a lot of charge remaining

[madmarx]

Feels like it's raining bricks. I feel sorry for your hardwork !
I am porting my tutorials to tiki (it already works, but I am updating some content), but in my case it's not a problem for me to revert to media wiki.
Still, I don't know what to say...

[syd]

here's a bunch of links about tiki performance issues.

http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Performance
http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php? ... ity_issues
http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Filtering+Best+Practices

I guess you've already been there

[syd]

thinking about it again, in a different angle:

tiki requires more server resources,
and this seems to be an issue (Ogre3d.org may lack server resources)
so what may be needed is more resources?

it doesn't look that bad from my computer, browsing the wiki looks fairly responsive (~2/3 seconds per page)
I think that compared to mediaWiki, it's a very different experience.

It think it may not be that much of a big deal

[betajaen]

thinking about it again, in a different angle:

tiki requires more server resources,
and this seems to be an issue (Ogre3d.org may lack server resources)

According to sinbad the server has about a 1 Gigabyte of RAM installed. Which I suppose is a lot considering it's probably running a minimal linux, with apache and mysql processes running, those probably use about 100-150 in total, but then you have the RAM required for the rest of the site; both forums, main page, [s]secret camera shows[/s] and bug tracker.

I'm sure increasing the RAM would help but that would require some expense and physical access to the machine.

Personally, I think we should keep the tiki wiki up for a bit more, just to give it a more clear picture on how the server copes with it. I also think there are still a few more screws need tightening and a few configuration files that need tweaking. Jacmoe's gone through all that effort and it would be a shame to waste it all without giving it all our effort to keep it running.

[syd]

Personally, I think we should keep the tiki wiki up for a bit more, just to give it a more clear picture on how the server copes with it. I also think there are still a few more screws need tightening and a few configuration files that need tweaking. Jacmoe's gone through all that effort and it would be a shame to waste it all without giving it all our effort to keep it running.

totally agree.
reminds me I have a godaddy hosting plan that I'm not using at all (just storing data), if it may help

[jacmoe]

For most pages, the serving time is under 1 second.
It's just that the server is using 2x the energy to serve them, compared to MW.

This really didn't turn out the way I planned, but maybe - if you really like the new wiki, and intend to use it - we can work it out.

Maybe.

I'd advise you to check out the new Wiki Help section, because that's where the features are explained.

Had I know that it was going to be such a big difference, I would have bothered in the first place..
But, of course: you pay a price for a feature complete solution.

It's up to you - and the wiki Gods.

[jacmoe]

Thanks for the thanks.

To prove to you that no page is lost:
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/TOC+Tutorials
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/TOC+Cookbook
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/TOC+Libraries
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/TOC+Tools
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/TOC+Development
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/TOC+Community

Each structure has a TOC page.

All 1500 pages are listed there, showing where they are in the hierarchy.

Yes, those are going to be split up!
I bet they render in more than 1 second - before being cache, of course.
It sure helps picture the wealth of information already there.
(They are rendered twice: without and with descriptions - it is apparent that not all pages bear a description (yet - if ever?)

[JaJDoo]

im kind of confused now... are we moving to tiki or going back to media wiki? or is it still undecided?

[jacmoe]

Don't worry your little brain with that.

[JaJDoo]

my brain is medium-small

[jacmoe]

If you like the wiki - try it out. Use it.
We haven't decided yet.
It depends a lot on what you people say.
So knock yourself out.

And ask a lot of questions.
I am sure you've got some.
It *is* different from MediaWiki.

And I haven't turned on the WYSIWYG editor, because I don't believe in it.
But I can turn it on if it's really wanted.
I just don't trust it.
It might mess with the output..

But try away - ask away.

[jacmoe]

I'll do a new screencast, I think, so that you can get an interactive walkthrough of the wiki.

[jacmoe]

im kind of confused now... are we moving to tiki or going back to media wiki? or is it still undecided?

It looks like we're stuck with the new wiki. ...

Embrace the monster!

[Xavyiy]

Just to put my word here: I really like the new wiki, I think we should keep it and find out a way to solve current tiki server resource problems, because the efforts put on this new wiki gives it a really good feel, something like what sinbad has achieve with Ogre, but in this case with jacmoe(and a lot of more people, of course!) and the wiki.

So... let's go with it, new times with new ideas gives us new problems, but we're experts on find out solutions

[jacmoe]

Thanks, Xavyiy

[JaJDoo]

its the OGRE of the WIKI NETWORK
get it..? stuck with the monster..?