Proun - OUT NOW!

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Re: Proun

Postby calsmurf2904 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:29 pm

Just played it on a laptop with an Intel GMA x3100 graphics card and it ran it about 25 fps, which makes the game playable on it.
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Re: Proun

Postby Rambus » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:43 pm

Hey,

It does not run on my system (I assume I don't have the required PS).

i7 2.6ghz d0 stepping
6 gig ram
windows xp 64
Radeon x1950 pro (512 mem).

Fails to load level in openGl
15:47:06: WARNING: Twister_Collider.mesh is an older format ([MeshSerializer_v1.30]); you should upgrade it as soon as possible using the OgreMeshUpgrade tool.
15:47:06: Mesh: Loading Twister_Rest.mesh.
15:47:06: WARNING: Twister_Rest.mesh is an older format ([MeshSerializer_v1.30]); you should upgrade it as soon as possible using the OgreMeshUpgrade tool.
15:47:06: Finished loading resource group track
15:47:06: Can't assign material StandardEmptyMaterial_ to SubEntity of 7 because this Material does not exist. Have you forgotten to define it in a .material script?
15:47:06: Can't assign material 21___Default to SubEntity of 65 because this Material does not exist. Have you forgotten to define it in a .material script?
15:47:06: Mesh: Loading Triangle01_Colour.mesh.
15:47:06: WARNING: Triangle01_Colour.mesh is an older format ([MeshSerializer_v1.30]); you should upgrade it as soon as possible using the OgreMeshUpgrade tool.
15:47:06: Can't assign material NoMaterial to SubEntity of VehicleEntity_1 because this Material does not exist. Have you forgotten to define it in a .material script?
15:47:06: WARNING: material DoFMaterialVeryHigh76 has no supportable Techniques and will be blank. Explanation:
Pass 0: Vertex program Cg_DoF_VP cannot be used - not supported.

15:47:06: OGRE EXCEPTION(2:InvalidParametersException): Named constants have not been initialised, perhaps a compile error. in GpuProgramParameters::_findNamedConstantDefinition at ..\src\OgreGpuProgram.cpp (line 1087)


In directX it loads the level fine but other then the gui everything is pure black.
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Re: Proun

Postby Devil N » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:01 pm

Game works great here, and it's very fun to play. Well done!

My framerate hovered between 300 and 350 fps on the 40s level, with the following specs:

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 (3 GHz)
4 GB RAM
Geforce 9800 GTX+ (512 MB VRAM)
1280x960 with 4x MSAA and 8x AF
High graphics detail

The game crashes in OpenGL here too, with the same invalid parameters exception. Direct3D works fine.

The choice of music was very unexpected, but the Jazzy style works surprisingly well. My only gripe is that it gets a bit too busy for the otherwise serene environment of the game. Considering the abstract style of the game, I personally would have chosen a more abstract style of music too. Maybe something like glitch music, if you can stomach it. But the Jazz is an interesting choice.

Those are my initial thoughts. I'll post more feedback once I get the inspiration to write.
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Re: Proun

Postby _tommo_ » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:10 am

tried the game, it works great :D

Geforce 8600 GT, windows 7, Core2 E6600, 1400x900 2xAA: i get an average of 55 fps on each level.

I think the game has really a lot of potential and i really like the super-polished style :D
Anyway, regarding the gameplay, i find really difficult to know exactly if in my current position i will hit the obstacle or not: i was always hitting the borders of something while i thought to be able to get through.
And, the sphere is a bit anonymous and hinders the view, so often you can't figure where an obstacle intersect your rail... that is the most important spot.

Maybe, you could add a 1 person view? Imo it would really make sense: you avoid the problem of creating a vehicle and, the collision box is what you can see. Easy as that :D
Also the controls feels a bit stiff for a strange game like this one, i would see fit some newtonian physics if thrown in... like, you start turning left and you keep spinning until you don't press right; or, bulges in the rail make you jump and then fall+bounce on the track. Never tried F-Zero? :D
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Re: Proun

Postby Oogst » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:58 pm

Thanks for the quick feedback, folks! 8)

Looks like I got a lot of work to do, to implement some of the improvements/issues you folks came up with! :)


rizu wrote:Nice work so far! I tested your game and play controls seemed very polished. Especially response to movement was really good. For final game I'd wish there were at least some illusion of rotation for the sphere, it's planned already right? Also I wouldn't mind if things got into turbo-mode more often, at slower speeds controlling seemed little too easy.

I did get a crash when trying to first use OpenGL version, logs are attached. On DX9 I got very solid performace, I was running 1920x1200 with AA on level 8 I got 230-250fps, with 1680x1050 and without AA I got 340-385fps. Running with i7 920@2.6ghz + GTX285.

Rotating the sphere, how would you imagine that to work? Making the sphere a ball that really rolls over the cable seems maybe a bit out of place? I don't like the staticness of the ball as it is right now, but I don't see how rotation would work exactly. Do you have some nice idea for this?

A colleague of mine mentioned the easiness today as well: he wanted to go twice as fast. But some people also say they think the current track is too difficult, so I think I will just introduce a "hard" difficulty, where you can go something like 50% faster. :)

OpenGL not working is intended. I just forgot to remove the option, that's all. :)


spacegaier wrote:... However, I don't like the crash visualization. Looks like kind of an unfinished placeholder. I think that some particles could enhace the effect...

I get very mixed reactions to those crash particles. I think adding sound effects and a camera shake would already go a long way for this, and I am considering adding some scaling animation, since the thing just pops into and out of existence as it is. Animation might help to make it look more in place. At least, I hope so! :)


Vectrex wrote:...

The game style reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyJfHU4G ... re=related
I personally would love that music but no-one else would ;)

This old electronic track from 1994 would fit. I feel like it should be kind of scary sounding and tension building. Not like lounge music :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xko4qzTK148
The filmclip is in a similar trippy vain too

I am pretty sure the second clip would work well with the game, but I just personally don't like that kind of music. And most racing games use dance already, and I don't want this game to be like most racing games. It's a personal thing, though, since the music you propose would probably work well. The noise-track is something I like a lot more, but I don't think that would work with this game. I have to admit that designing a racing game specifically to fit that noise seems like an interesting thing to do! Not now, though... :)


Pyritie wrote:...(why medium, high, very high? Why not low/med/high?)
...
Level 1:
Near the end of the big tube spinny thingy the "ship" obstructs your view so you can't really see ahead of you here.
Why does the ship start spinning around the track when you go into superspeed before that big red triangle?

Level 2:
It's long.
...

It's medium/high/very high because there is a "very low" mode as well, without depth of field blur, but that is only partly implemented right now, so I left it out of this version. :)

The spinning is a funny remark, a colleague of mine said that today as well. It is actually the red triangle that is spinning, not you, but this is not visible, because the rest of the screen is nearly empty. I'll add some background objects, so that this becomes clear.

Level 2 is far from finished. I agree that it is too long, so I will probably use about half of it in a final level, and then do a lot of tweaking. I love the part with the planet and the tunnel, so that will remain in there. The rest? Maybe.


Rambus wrote:...
In directX it loads the level fine but other then the gui everything is pure black.

I got the same error from someone else as well (with a much newer Ati card, even), so I am going to look into it, since your card should be able to run this game perfectly well. I posted about it here. Hopefully someone knows how to fix this!
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Re: Proun

Postby haffax » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:07 am

Oogst wrote:Rotating the sphere, how would you imagine that to work? Making the sphere a ball that really rolls over the cable seems maybe a bit out of place? I don't like the staticness of the ball as it is right now, but I don't see how rotation would work exactly. Do you have some nice idea for this?

Imagine a ball made of soft elastic matter. When it doesn't move it is a perfect sphere, but when it rotates, centrifugal forces will flatten it. So speed can be shown by how flat the ball is, the more disk-like, the faster.
But making the ball flat when it is fast also has a game play effect, it will be easier to circumvent obstacles. Maybe this will have to be compensated somehow.

You can also add a slight wobble to the width of the sphere to make it look more dynamic. Don't know if it looks good in practice. Higher wobble frequency -> higher speed, I guess this is how this will be perceived. Maybe worth a try. :)
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Re: Proun

Postby akem321 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:09 am

Wow, totaly cool game, i love the design, and the music is great too!
but i can' t play with my pad! :)
anyway congratz!
good job.
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Re: Proun

Postby Kojack » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:12 pm

In opengl it crashes during the 1/3 loading stage after starting a game with this exception:
OGRE EXCEPTION(2:InvalidParametersException): Named constants have not been initialised, perhaps a compile error. in GpuProgramParameters::_findNamedConstantDefinition at ..\src\OgreGpuProgram.cpp (line 1087)


In directx it seems to be playing, but apart from text (framerate, tri count in the top left, and game info in the bottom left) the entire screen is just black. Nothing much in the log apart from lots of cube map texture errors.

This is on a radeon 5870 and windows 7.
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Re: Proun

Postby Oogst » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:19 pm

Yeah, I know, Radeons are broken. It's fixed now on my computer, so I will post a new version of the game soon. Also, OpenGL was never intended to work, I just forgot to remove it. :)

akem321 wrote:Wow, totaly cool game, i love the design, and the music is great too!
but i can' t play with my pad! :)
anyway congratz!
good job.
Joystick support is planned, but that will probably take a few weeks to get in. Especially since Torchlight came out, so I work on Proun until Sunday (the IGF deadline) and then I am going to play Torchlight first. :)
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Re: Proun

Postby Kojack » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:09 pm

Fixed it myself using the info from your black render thread. I changed all the profiles in the dof material file to be version 3 and it runs fine now.
Very cool look, and quite addictive. 800+fps in 1680x1050 here. :)

Good luck with the IGF!
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Re: Proun

Postby Oogst » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:04 pm

I fixed the issues with the Ati cards. At least, I hope so! So please, if you have an Ati card (x-series and higher), then please try this version and let me know whether it works! :)

Proun testversion v53

Other changes here are a camera shake when you crash into something, to increase the impact of that, and difficulty modes. The old settings are now the Easy difficulty. On Impossible, you go about three times as fast. :P If you like a challenge, then try going beneath these lap-times:

-40 seconds on easy
-30 seconds on normal
-25 seconds on hard
-20 seconds on impossible

As always, do let me know if you have any comments on any topic! I still have time to fix things. If not for IGF, then for the release version! 8)

@Kojack:
800+, was that on high or on very high quality? I get the idea I can also include a too high mode with twice as much depth of field blur samples! :) Anyway, really cool that you applied the fixes yourself. :P
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Re: Proun

Postby Kojack » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:28 pm

That new one works fine for me. I'm down to 40.66 seconds for track1 (while brushing my teeth and getting ready for work). :)

Ok, very high quality (I forgot I dropped it done when testing) is around 400-500fps (still 1680x1050)
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Re: Proun

Postby Froyok » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:29 am

Kojack wrote:That new one works fine for me. I'm down to 40.66 seconds for track1 (while brushing my teeth and getting ready for work). :)

Ok, very high quality (I forgot I dropped it done when testing) is around 400-500fps (still 1680x1050)


Work fine for me too ! On my ATI HD4850, in 1650*1050, I get 160 FPS.
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Re: Proun

Postby rizu » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:32 am

Oogst wrote:Rotating the sphere, how would you imagine that to work? Making the sphere a ball that really rolls over the cable seems maybe a bit out of place? I don't like the staticness of the ball as it is right now, but I don't see how rotation would work exactly. Do you have some nice idea for this?

I'm not sure what I were really after, it just feels weird that a ball slides along the rope while not rotating at all (I mean rotation towards the overal movement, not just sideways rotation). It doesn't really bother on normal and turbo speeds, only when going slow when you see static ball with that rippled material.

Oogst wrote:A colleague of mine mentioned the easiness today as well: he wanted to go twice as fast. But some people also say they think the current track is too difficult, so I think I will just introduce a "hard" difficulty, where you can go something like 50% faster. :)
I like now the "normal" difficulty on v53, just around the nice speed to feel the "flow".
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Re: Proun

Postby Oogst » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:53 pm

Currently I am having fun creating the logo screens for the game. It is a lot fun just playing with my depth of field shader in combination with stencil shadows, plus pre-baked occlusion maps. It looks better in animation, but I nevertheless really like the looks of the logo screen below. :)

Notice how the depth of field blur softens the stencil shadows, making them look like soft area shadows. 8) To get this effect, I set the depth of field blur to be fully sharp at the front of the letters, and already completely blurred just little bit behind them.

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Re: Proun

Postby Oogst » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:48 pm

I just posted the first real trailer to Youtube, in HD. I also sent it to GameTrailers, but I don't know if they'll cover it. Here is the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvKeQa8sso
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Re: Proun

Postby matz3 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:41 pm

Hi Oogst,

have seen your GameTrailer today on YouTube and the game seems to be awsome! 8)
Is there any chance that you will release a linux version? I don't understand anything about porting games, but the combination of ogre 3d and opengl should work perfektly with linux systems. :?:

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Re: Proun

Postby Gio9sig551 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:19 pm

Hi,

I have an ATI card (X600) on my pc. How I can play Proun? :)

I really want to try it! It seams really interesting!

Good lock for IGF anyway!!
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Re: Proun

Postby Joric » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:24 am

Doesn't work on x600 either (64Mb). Does it want SM3.0? x600 only has SM2.
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Re: Proun

Postby Oogst » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:05 am

Right now I only have an SM2.x implementation on Medium graphics quality, so that should work on Ati X600 cards. Can you try changing to that in the settings? Since I don't have access to any 2.x cards myself, I would like to know whether Ogre's technique switching actually works here. :)

@Gio9sig551:
I would love to release a Linux version and a Unix version, but I myself have never used these platforms, so I am actually looking for someone to create the builds for these platforms. :)
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Re: Proun

Postby calsmurf2904 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:01 pm

Joric wrote:Doesn't work on x600 either (64Mb). Does it want SM3.0? x600 only has SM2.

I'm using it on an intel gma x3100 graphics card (128 mb, SM2.0) and it works on medium settings.
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Re: Proun

Postby Tiibiidii » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:47 pm

i saw your trailer on youtube and upon seeing the awesome graphics decided to try it :mrgreen:

unfortunately i was unable to make it work on my win 7 64bit:

it warned about the absence of d3dx9_35.dll

i solved it by installing the directx end user runtime... so i guess you may want to redistribute it along the visualc++ runtimes

keep up the good work :mrgreen:
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Re: Proun

Postby Oogst » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Tiibiidii wrote:i saw your trailer on youtube and upon seeing the awesome graphics decided to try it :mrgreen:

unfortunately i was unable to make it work on my win 7 64bit:

it warned about the absence of d3dx9_35.dll

i solved it by installing the directx end user runtime... so i guess you may want to redistribute it along the visualc++ runtimes

keep up the good work :mrgreen:

Thanks for the tip! :) I wonder, though: would simply adding that DLL to my game be enough? Doesn't installing a DirectX version do more than just copy one DLL?


calsmurf2904 wrote:I'm using it on an intel gma x3100 graphics card (128 mb, SM2.0) and it works on medium settings.

Weird that it runs there! So far I only implemented SM2.x, not 2.0. But then again, those Intel's are known for their randomized features sets. ;)
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Re: Proun

Postby Oogst » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:03 pm

New version!

Okay, I put in a lot more polish, including graphics for the menu and AI. Still only one track, though. Here's the download:

Proun testversion v59

Question: how does playing against the AI feel? You cannot collide with opponents, so they are mainly there to make you want to pass them and get first place. Now my question is: is that fun? I personally enjoy time trial against a ghost of my own best time much more than playing against AI's, how do you folks feel about this? I find this a difficult thing gameplay-wise, because there is no way to cut corners or stuff like that to pass opponents. You are basically just racing against yourself, while the opponent is there to show how well you are doing.

As always, random other comments and ideas are welcome as well!

Here's a screenshot from the menu:

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Next up is sound effects, more polish and creating a little bit of documentation for the exporter, in case someone wants to try to create extra tracks for the game in 3dsmax. I plan to only start working on the second and third track myself once the game really feels good in every way, since more tracks is kind of more of the same.
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Re: Proun

Postby Joric » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:41 am

Oogst wrote:New version!
Okay, I put in a lot more polish, including graphics for the menu and AI. Still only one track, though. Here's the download:
Proun testversion v59

For now it won't start on x600 from the very beginning (with latest DirectX rutime). Changing quality to medium in config file doesn't help.
It says the same: OGRE EXCEPTION(2:InvalidParametersException): Named constants have not been initialised, perhaps a compile error. in GpuProgramParameters::_findNamedConstantDefinition at ..\src\OgreGpuProgram.cpp (line 1087)
Last edited by Joric on Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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