OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

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Assaf Raman
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

I am not sure about the answers.
Best ask here if you don't mind: https://groups.google.com/group/native-client-discuss
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by duststorm »

Assaf Raman wrote:I saw this error before, it is related to bug in Chrome that corrupt the downloaded files from time to time.
Clear Chrome cache and reload the page.
To me it happened when reloading the page. The first time it works (when it downloads the files), upon re-loading or re-opening the page it fails. This is probably because it attempts to load the resource files from cache instead of re-downloading them.

So anyway, I finally got the demo to work! ;) (on chrome beta channel v15.0.874.21 beta) It works really well, good job Assaf.
I'm downloading the current binary files for each platform for safekeeping, just in case it dies on me again ;)
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

I am going to port Stunt Playground so will have a more complete OGRE NaCl sample (with physics, 3d sound and such).
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Beauty »

Congratulation for your successful port. :D
And thanks for your detailed development report. It was very intesting to read.
Help to add information to the wiki. Also tiny edits will let it grow ... :idea:
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

Thanks for your support.
In the end - I hope I helped in a small way to the the fight against the "only JavaScript for web apps" world.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Lee04 »

Great great work Assaf.
Being on the bleeding edge is hard work and a lot of problems to tackle.

I looked at PNaCL that seams to be really good for compiling Ogre once for NaCl and get it to work on all plattforms.
That will be very cool.

Also they will offer an API for plattform specific features, I hope the PNaCL community will work a lot on this.

Cheers,,
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Lansbury »

Just brilliant! Thank you!
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by duststorm »

I hope google will really see a point in supporting Ogre apps in NaCl. It's a brilliant feature showcase, and I believe it could have lots of applications. Image full 3D apps taking over what flash webpages did some 8 years ago. That would be fantastic for example for a promotional website for a movie.
I really like how fast this is going, I hadn't thought NaCl Ogre would get here this quick.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

Flash 11 was just released and it supports OpenGL ES 2.
So there are other options that exist beside NaCl.
The best thing about NaCl - is that NaCl performance is the best you can get.
BTW: Unity has both a NaCl version at works and a Flash 11 version - so we will be able to compare performance.
I am not planning a Flash 11 port - Flash 11 only supports assembly shaders and I don't have the time to deal with that.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by _tommo_ »

duststorm wrote:I hope google will really see a point in supporting Ogre apps in NaCl. It's a brilliant feature showcase, and I believe it could have lots of applications. Image full 3D apps taking over what flash webpages did some 8 years ago. That would be fantastic for example for a promotional website for a movie.
I really like how fast this is going, I hadn't thought NaCl Ogre would get here this quick.
Uhm. To be fair I'm a little with Mozilla in this.
While NaCL/C++ has the obvious advantage of performances (that is awesome for a videogame) it is somewhat a "black box" in regards to the rest of the web, so it can't be indexed, can't be scaled to different devices, can't be rendered depending on the context, can't be filtered, etc.
We go straight back to C++ GUI written by hand each time different... it can't even access the DOM from what I know.
and it looks like a waste now that HTML5 has the potential to be the "definitive interface language" and so many cool UIs are popping up everywhere in the web.

To me "they" (as in "whoever can decide about this") should only support a way to embed a bytecode into pages, instead of javascript. That way I can write my client in what language I like more, and that's all.
This whole idea of hand-crafting each language with its VM into a browser is really upside down, to me... why on the Earth a language has to be "implemented"? (rhetoric question :D )

tl;dr: in the end, this NaCL looks like a faster Flash in C++, and that's not so fine, to me.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Lee04 »

Ph.D. student in game development
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

I agree, NaCl is a faster, safer and more open source Flash.
That is a good thing - to have an alternative.
I guess I am going to port OGRE also to flash somewhere along the way, but for now - I like NaCl better.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by duststorm »

_tommo_ wrote:To me "they" (as in "whoever can decide about this") should only support a way to embed a bytecode into pages, instead of javascript. That way I can write my client in what language I like more, and that's all.
Not fully the same, but that's why I like GWT for developing web applications. Another google invention ;)

And concerning the "another VM in the browser": I'd love for NaCl to become a "VM" that is finally open source and is decently supported on other platforms than windows that can finally compete with Flash. I don't see flash really going anywhere with 3D (even video seems like a far stretch to me), as it's so slow. Especially when not using windows. As opposed to watching videos, where people don't really care that their lightning fast new machine underperforms, with games people will want to get the most performance out of their expensive computer. Sacrificing 40 FPS because your're running your game on a flash platform won't cut it for most gamers, I believe.

While there are obvious advantages to the whole virtual machine and middleware/platforms business, sadly a major disadvantage is performance. Moore's law still holds, and all we're doing with these faster machines is letting them run more bloated middleware, so that in the end we run the same applications as 5 years ago, only on the web..

There is a reason why IBM (mainly a computer hardware vendor) invested so much in promoting java. ;)
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by _tommo_ »

duststorm wrote:*
The performance argument is valid if the browser then interprets the bytecode as most did with JavaScript before Chrome, but nothing really forces you to not precompile the whole page into native code, like .NET and V8 do, and like PNaCL will do in the future.

The problem with the web is that the basic building blocks of programs are defined in terms of really high level functions (like, javascript) that have to be painstakingly implemented by hand by each browser... it's like if on desktop, every single language you want to use has to be integrated with the OS.
while on desktop, since 20 years, what you target is machine code, and then you are good to go.

And Google is in love of this fragmentation apparently, as it releases a "platform" every day often :D See DART, Go, NaCL, PNaCL, GWT, integrated flash support - I wonder how many languages they will implement by hand before noticing some repetition :D
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by fuzzybinary »

Hey Asssaf,

I'm trying to get OGRE to build with NaCL and I've run into some problems. I followed your instructions and things build fine, but when linking the sample browser, I'm getting a lot of unresolved symbols. As in, everything is an unresolved symbol:

Code: Select all

1>  Performing Custom Build Tools
1>  Linking SampleBrowser for NaCl
1>  SampleBrowser_32.o: In function `Sample_Ocean::checkBoxToggled(OgreBites::CheckBox*)':
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0xdc): undefined reference to `Ogre::OverlayElement::isVisible() const'
1>  SampleBrowser_32.o: In function `pp::CreateModule()':
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x13c): undefined reference to `pp::Module::Module()'
1>  SampleBrowser_32.o: In function `global constructors keyed to Sample_Compositor::Sample_Compositor()':
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x1e1): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Red'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x1f5): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Red'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x201): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Red'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x20b): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Red'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x215): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Green'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x221): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Green'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x22b): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Green'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x235): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Green'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x241): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Blue'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x24b): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Blue'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x255): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Blue'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x261): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::Blue'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x26b): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::White'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x275): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::White'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x281): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::White'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x28b): undefined reference to `Ogre::ColourValue::White'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x2a1): undefined reference to `Ogre::Vector3::UNIT_X'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x2d0): undefined reference to `Ogre::Vector3::UNIT_X'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x2fa): undefined reference to `Ogre::Vector3::UNIT_X'
1>  SampleBrowser_32.o: In function `Sample_Compositor::cleanupContent()':
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0xa3c): undefined reference to `Ogre::TextureUnitState::setContentType(Ogre::TextureUnitState::ContentType)'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0xa5c): undefined reference to `Ogre::CompositorManager::getSingleton()'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0xa7c): undefined reference to `Ogre::CompositorManager::removeCompositorChain(Ogre::Viewport*)'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0xafc): undefined reference to `Ogre::CompositorManager::getSingleton()'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0xb3c): undefined reference to `Ogre::CompositorManager::unregisterCompositorLogic(std::string const&)'
1>  SampleBrowser_32.o: In function `Sample_Ocean::sliderMoved(OgreBites::Slider*)':
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0xfdc): undefined reference to `Ogre::Pass::getAmbient() const'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x101c): undefined reference to `Ogre::Pass::setAmbient(Ogre::ColourValue const&)'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x105c): undefined reference to `Ogre::Pass::getDiffuse() const'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x109c): undefined reference to `Ogre::Pass::setDiffuse(Ogre::ColourValue const&)'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x10dc): undefined reference to `Ogre::Pass::getSpecular() const'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x111c): undefined reference to `Ogre::Pass::setSpecular(Ogre::ColourValue const&)'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x11bc): undefined reference to `Ogre::GpuProgramParameters::_writeRawConstant(unsigned int, float)'
1>  SampleBrowser.cpp:(.text+0x123c): undefined reference to `Ogre::Pass::setShininess(float)'
... (It goes on like this)
My dependencies are in the ogre Root under ogre\Dependencies.

Here's my linking command:

Code: Select all

echo Linking SampleBrowser for NaCl
set CYGWIN=nodosfilewarning
cd "$(ProjectDir)$(Configuration)_$(PlatformArchitecture)"
"$(NACL_SDK_ROOT)\toolchain\win_x86_newlib\bin\x86_64-nacl-g++" -o "$(SolutionDir)out\$(ProjectName)_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture).nexe"  -melf_nacl -m$(PlatformArchitecture) --strip-all  "SampleBrowser_$(PlatformArchitecture).o" "FileSystemLayerImpl_NaCl_$(PlatformArchitecture).o" "-L$(SolutionDir)..\..\Dependencies\out "-L$(SolutionDir)out" -lOgreTerrain_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture)  -lSample_BezierPatch_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_BSP_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_CameraTrack_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_CelShading_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Character_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Compositor_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_CubeMapping_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_DeferredShading_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Dot3Bump_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_DynTex_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_FacialAnimation_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Fresnel_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Grass_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Instancing_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Isosurf_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Lighting_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_NewInstancing_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Ocean_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_ParticleFX_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_ParticleGS_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_ShaderSystem_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Shadows_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_SkeletalAnimation_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_SkyBox_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_SkyDome_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_SkyPlane_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Smoke_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_SphereMapping_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Terrain_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_TextureArray_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_TextureFX_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Transparency_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_VolumeTex_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lSample_Water_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lOgrePaging_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lOgreProperty_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lPlugin_BSPSceneManager_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lPlugin_OctreeSceneManager_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lPlugin_OctreeZone_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lPlugin_ParticleFX_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lPlugin_PCZSceneManager_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lOgreRTShaderSystem_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lRenderSystem_GLES2_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture)  -lOgreMain_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lfreetype_NaCl_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lOIS_NaCl_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture)  -lzziplib_NaCl_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lFreeImageLib_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lOpenEXR_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lLibJPEG_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lLibMNG_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lLibOpenJPEG_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lLibPNG_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lLibRawLite_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lLibTIFF_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) -lZLib-FreeImage_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture)  -lppapi_gles2 -lppapi -lppapi_cpp -lnosys -lpthread
I added my dependencies directory and pthread, since even with #define OGRE_THREAD_SUPPORT 0, I'm getting unresolved externals to pthread.

Any ideas?
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

I will try to get this working on a "clean" computer by following my instructions - then get back to you.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

I compiled and linked it on a new computer.
Two issues:
1. I needed to updated the code to the latest NaCl pepper 15 SDK - that changed since my last build.
2. I needed to remove -lOgreProperty_x86_$(PlatformArchitecture) from step 9.

Check that you run the latest convertor tool on the OgreDependencies.sln, compiled the Dependencies to all platforms then copied the result to your build directory out.
Also make sure that you are using the same Dependencies for the OGRE build.
Make sure that all the the other projects compile.
Make sure that you are using pepper 15 and the NACL_SDK env var is pointing to it.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Mononofu »

Has anyone got this to work on Ubuntu 11.10?

I'm using Google Chrome 16.0.912.4 dev, but the demo doesn't work for me.

I tried both the version in the chrome store as well as the one on your website. Both of them start loading normally, but then hang indefinitely. (ie nothing appears, the page stays white)

The output on the JS console always ends like this:

Code: Select all

-------------------------
tumbler.js:91 *   CPU ID: X86
tumbler.js:91-------------------------
tumbler.js:91	GLSupport start called
tumbler.js:91	GLSupport createWindow called
tumbler.js:91GLES2RenderSystem::_createRenderWindow "OGRE Sample Browser Window", 800x600 windowed  miscParams: SwapCallback=271666820 pp::Instance=271666304 
tumbler.js:91	GLSupport newWindow called
tumbler.js:91	create called
tumbler.js:91	initNativeCreatedWindow called
tumbler.js:91	getting pp::Instance - if stopped here - it means the parameter is null!
tumbler.js:91	got the pp::Instance.
tumbler.js:91	getting SwapCallback - if stopped here - it means the parameter is null!
tumbler.js:91	got the SwapCallback.
tumbler.js:91	initNativeCreatedWindow ended
tumbler.js:91	create context started
Other NaCl apps from the Chrome store work, so NaCl is fine. OpenGL and 3D acceleration is also working on my system.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

Download the NaCl SDK yourself and try a sample called "tumbler" that shows a cube from the SDK. If it doesn't work - there is an issue with your computer setup.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Mononofu »

I got it to work - turns out WebGL wasn't enabled in about:flags ....

Sorry to cause you trouble, it looks awesome :)
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

No problem, I am happy it works. :D
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by spacegaier »

Assaf's work got us here: http://www.gonacl.com/dev/supported_software.html

And also on google's live demos page: http://www.gonacl.com/dev/demos.html

Nice work!!!
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

NaClDemoStats.gif
Google Analytics for this week of the #ogre3d NaCl sample in the Chrome Web Store.
We have gone from one visit to 1000 visits per day because of this new NaCl site.
I hope it will bring some new people to the project.
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by duststorm »

spacegaier wrote:Assaf's work got us here: http://www.gonacl.com/dev/supported_software.html

And also on google's live demos page: http://www.gonacl.com/dev/demos.html
Wow, congrats!

This is really a nice advertisement for Ogre3d. Hope it will benefit from a popularity boost.

Does this mean that the Ogre3d sample works with the latest stable (non-dev) version of chrome now?
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Re: OGRE port to NaCl (Google's Native Client)

Post by Assaf Raman »

Yes.
I may release an OGRE NaCl SDK when 0.8 will be out.
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