Ogre on Intel Smoke Framework

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Ogre on Intel Smoke Framework

Postby RabidCat » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:28 pm

Thought folks might want to know that this Nehalem demo shown at the Intel Developer Forum uses the Smoke Framework. The Multi-threaded game engine uses Ogre for it's Display engine.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36726/135/

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36758/135
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Postby spookyboo » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:55 pm

I'm wondering whether Intel be using Ogre more extensively or whether we'll be seeing the Project Offset engine in action in future demos (since they bought it)
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Postby RabidCat » Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:18 am

Intel does extensive developer enabling. This framework is an example efforts to enable the game development community showing how someone might approach designing a game application that can take advantage of a multi-core system.

for those interested in getting the code for the framework send a note to smokecode@intel.com

The Smoke Framework hasn't been released to the development community yet but there are plans to do so in the near future.

While the framework can easily substitute different systems, the graphics and display engine are presently ogre. As long as the release of Ogre DX10 support meets reasonable deadlines the framework will probably continue to use ogre as the display engine. Ogre brings a lot of great things to the table for a display engine. Can't really comment one way or another on the Project Offset engine. Probably best to direct serious questions about that to the Project Offset Engine forums.

thanks for the comments
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Postby cybereality » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:59 pm

Well if Intel has chosen to use Ogre, even just for prototyping, I think that says a whole lot.
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Postby sinbad » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:43 pm

Good to see the demo being shown publicly!
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Postby triton » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:13 pm

Nice demo. :)
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Postby voxel » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:14 am

They kinda announced this at GDC... but gave no timeframe on source release except late summer. The GDC slides have benchmark numbers.
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Postby lf3thn4d » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:19 pm

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Postby tuan kuranes » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:47 am

Smoke demo binaries and source online (ogre fmod havok)

http://software.intel.com/en-us/article ... ology-demo

to read carefully, along with

http://software.intel.com/en-us/article ... ame-engine
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Postby jacmoe » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:09 am

This is so cool! :D

Ogre3D, Paged Geometry, Threading, Havok ... !

I even spotted a very interesting procedural tree generation library in there .. :)
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Postby Nodrev » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:35 pm

I even spotted a very interesting procedural tree generation library in there .. Smile

Just dowloaded source code, and it seem's that the procedural tree sources is mostly "ready to use" :D. The only problem seem's to be the licence:
Code: Select all
Copyright © 2008 Intel Corporation
... but i'm not really licences problem friendly, maybe someone could throw light on use this code to make, why not, a useful addon librairy.
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Postby jacmoe » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:54 pm

Nodrev wrote:Just dowloaded source code, and it seem's that the procedural tree sources is mostly "ready to use" :D. The only problem seem's to be the licence:
Code: Select all
Copyright © 2008 Intel Corporation
... but i'm not really licences problem friendly, maybe someone could throw light on use this code to make, why not, a useful addon librairy.

Do not worry! ->
Q: What is the license?

A: You can read the license here. The goal is to allow developers to use the Smoke code written by Intel for any purpose (including derivative works) with no limitations or obligations.

Yes, that means free - even for commercial use. :)
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Postby enligor » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:23 am

So Intel has finally made it public? That's good news!
The framework itself is pretty awesome, if you ask me, and it can even be used for real-world applications. Although due to Havok + FMOD bindings it is not very indie friendly. But other than that - a great framework plus a bunch of usefull procedural generated goodies.

P.S. do you guys remember, that originally the idea was to present a framework, which would safely run on a Quad-core and an Intel's graphics card? Now, however, it says that they still suggest having GeForce 8800 or above. Oh, well ;)
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Postby voxel » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:58 pm

Had a quick look - seems to be organized / well structured and is easy to build from source.

I am quickly trying to get it to build on 1.6 (Shoggoth) and am hitting minor (usual) bumps:

getObjectsAsArray()
hideBoundingBox()
visitRenderables()
Removal of getWorldPosition()

The hiccup is setProvideWorldInverses / getProvideWorldInverses - which (I think) is custom to the Intel Smoke framework.
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Postby jacmoe » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:02 pm

They have a list of patches they've used. Check those.
I haven't the list handy right now. :wink:
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Postby voxel » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:14 pm

jacmoe wrote:They have a list of patches they've used. Check those.
I haven't the list handy right now. :wink:


These are the patches:

    2008141
    2015382
    2015408
    2187821


The bolded are the ones not integrated into OGRE. I'm only concerned with the last one (passes inverse matrices to shaders).
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Evaluate

Postby fassihi » Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:17 am

I am curios to know how everybody here evaluates the different aspects of the Smoke framework? Pros, cons? It seems to be a big baseline for development.
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Postby jacmoe » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:55 pm

While I haven't looked at the code, the demo wouldn't give me more than two threads, one per core. (AMD 64 AthlonX2 here).
That's probably a design decision.
I have no idea if two threads per CPU would have made the demo more fluent.
A great demo showing how to utilise multiple cores IMO. :)

And, of course, a motivation for buying a bigger multi-core CPU. From Intel. :P

But we really can't complain. Seems like a great base to build upon. :wink:
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Why Ogre is late supporting DirectX10

Postby Lee04 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:40 pm

As long as the release of Ogre DX10 support meets reasonable deadlines the framework will probably continue to use ogre as the display engine.


Well, if the Ogre developers should have the latest hardware always, we would be able to keep Ogre more up to date.

But as it is now they get DirectX10 pieces when the prerelease if DirectX11 exists...

And they are somewhat late starters as well.
They are typically not involved in any DirectX beta program and never ever show us anything using DirectX refraster.


And the new OpenGL 3.1 API is late and it should mirror DirectX10/Directx11 better several APIs functions that are needed to write a nice wrapper between OpenGL3.1 and DirectX11 or for that matter between DirectX10 and OpenGL3.0.

Some things that are missing are:

Seperation between texture samplers and texture sources as supported DirectX10 dosn't exist for OpenGL3.0.

and

And OpenGL support for immutable state objects which should be sooo important if you belive the DirectX10 team.


And there are other differances that makes it hard to wrapp openGL and DirectX in Ogre in a "correct" way.

Ofcourse we can do it like the DirectX9 way without all Directx10 and DirectX11 features, but the preformance will suffer.

It will end up slower than DirectX9 on XP for sure.

The problem as I see it is that Microsofts is not in the arb group.
And the DirectX team should be in there I belive that would be nice.
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Postby dazKind » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:36 pm

Indeed a quite interesting release!

enligor wrote:P.S. do you guys remember, that originally the idea was to present a framework, which would safely run on a Quad-core and an Intel's graphics card? Now, however, it says that they still suggest having GeForce 8800 or above. Oh, well ;)


My senses tell me that the Project Offset folks will have something to do with an INTEL cpu + gpu demo-release. ;)
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Procedural Tree Lib

Postby RabidCat » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:46 pm

The Tree Library:

Use it. change it. expand it. Love it. hate it.
It's yours for the taking. no worry about the copyright. just keep the copyright in what ever it is you produce.

Let me know what you think about it.

If you want more info on the topic visit: http://software.intel.com/en-us/article ... ology-demo
between now and the time the detailed whitepaper comes out there is also a gamefest presentation on the topic as well. "Procedural Trees and Procedural Fire in a Virtual World"
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en


Enjoy
Last edited by RabidCat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jacmoe » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:24 pm

I love it! Thanks! :D
The trees in the demo looks great.
As a programmer, I really dig that you can create something through code! It also helps if you're making an entire forest! Can't wait to put it to use! :)
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Postby xadhoom » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:44 pm

Hi RabidCat!

Thanks for this interesting framework! I´m currently digging through
the rich documentation and (ofcourse) the source. There are many
interesting concepts in it! And I´m happy that we have some overlapping
concepts in our framework (besides the special multicore scheduler).
This gives me the feeling to be on the right track.

;-)
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